[MBF21] Mudman (now on /idgames)

I will definately be playing this. I dont like changing the physics of movement but I can get over myself enough to give something like this a fair shake.

i’ll definitely try this soon!; nice to see boom’s friction sectors being used, combat sounds interesting

Bump! I've just updated the map since I've just realised that the plasma gun in the red key route was flagged as UV-only. I have no idea how that slipped by this whole time, but it's been fixed now. Sorry! I also plan to make a few more minor balance changes, but I'll save those for the weekend, probably.

I spent some time with this one and I can state that without question. "I do not like the mud!" I havnt been able to finish the map, Ive made it quite a ways on multiple attempts but I always find myself at some point or another getting just too frustrated with the constant inability to dodge anything that I quit. Everything else was really cool but I can only put up with it for so long, I kinda wish there wad a version with normal movement so I could enjoy this. Anywho thanks for making this and I will keep plugging away. The effort is clearly there on your end, just unsure how much effort I want to put in on my end. 😃

It was fun testing this! I'll give the finished version a go again when I have some time, congrats on the release!

On 8/2/2023 at 10:11 PM, Insaneprophet said:

I spent some time with this one and I can state that without question. "I do not like the mud!" I havnt been able to finish the map, Ive made it quite a ways on multiple attempts but I always find myself at some point or another getting just too frustrated with the constant inability to dodge anything that I quit. Everything else was really cool but I can only put up with it for so long, I kinda wish there wad a version with normal movement so I could enjoy this. Anywho thanks for making this and I will keep plugging away. The effort is clearly there on your end, just unsure how much effort I want to put in on my end. 😃

I do agree with some of the projectile dodging in the green mud being a little difficult at times. Were there any particularly frustrating points while fighting in the mud? And thanks for the kind words :)

Great map! The friction gimmick in this was really neat -- sort of like damaging floors, but different. It's got that same general idea of being careful about what ground you step on and for how long, but it really makes you think differently about how you move around because of the speed differentials. I like that it was mostly used for the lighter fights where you can think about it more, and generally dialed back for the denser fights. I'm not a very good crowd-buster, so the places I found really difficult generally had very little to do with friction floors and were more about pure monster control. I found the friction pretty manageable (the friction-based fights that felt hardest were the ones with more than one Arch-Vile in close quarters) and it felt like you did a really good job of sprinkling safer pieces of ground around the playable areas, but I played on HMP and the invulns helped a lot, so other people's mileage may vary.

For a map that's so brown, this has a surprising amount of sense of place. This is a really cool little world you've built. Reminds me of Remnant, but gloomier. 

Definitely one of my favorite slaughter-adjacent things this year.

(P.S.: Since the Cyberdemon has much lower health, you might consider using a duller recolor (converting the red to green, gray, or something like that), just because it's such a common way to signal that. It also would fit the theme of the map a little more.)

HMP FDA, -dsdademo format, plays back in v0.26.2: mudman_maribo.zip - did not find the secret fight, unfortunately.

What an incredible map. For anyone curious: Instead of sloshing around in the mud, many of the ideas presented in this wad are closer to walking a tightrope, because in most spaces you have some amount of normal ground to work with. It makes you think a lot on your feet about whether you can keep tight enough motor control to weave through things or cut away and try to reset into a better space. This has also got to be one of the prettiest brown maps I've ever seen, I would seriously suggest that people who like the screenshots but are apprehensive about the difficulty or degree of slaughter run through it in -nomonsters anyway.

I have to agree with Not Jabba on a couple things, the first being that the fights where you get a couple of viles tossed at you in heavily-mudded space are the ones that feel like they have the most bite, which is largely due to your severely reduced mobility. The second being the bit about the Cyberdemon needing some kind of recolor, specifically suggesting recoloring their abdominal wires - it's not a mandatory thing by any means, but it's a good signpost for a brain under stress to help you remember that Cybers in this wad aren't the exact same as a normal one.

Something seems to have happened with the attachment. I cannot download the map.

Edit: Never mind v1.2 is up.

Thanks, the map is looking great!

Updated! the download should work now.

Thanks Not Jabba and Maribo for the comments! I've gone ahead and given the cyberdemon an olive green recolor. 

 

13 hours ago, Maribo said:

HMP FDA, -dsdademo format, plays back in v0.26.2: mudman_maribo.zip - did not find the secret fight, unfortunately.

What an incredible map. For anyone curious: Instead of sloshing around in the mud, many of the ideas presented in this wad are closer to walking a tightrope, because in most spaces you have some amount of normal ground to work with. It makes you think a lot on your feet about whether you can keep tight enough motor control to weave through things or cut away and try to reset into a better space. This has also got to be one of the prettiest brown maps I've ever seen, I would seriously suggest that people who like the screenshots but are apprehensive about the difficulty or degree of slaughter run through it in -nomonsters anyway.

 

I have to agree with Not Jabba on a couple things, the first being that the fights where you get a couple of viles tossed at you in heavily-mudded space are the ones that feel like they have the most bite, which is largely due to your severely reduced mobility. The second being the bit about the Cyberdemon needing some kind of recolor, specifically suggesting recoloring their abdominal wires - it's not a mandatory thing by any means, but it's a good signpost for a brain under stress to help you remember that Cybers in this wad aren't the exact same as a normal one.

Nice FDA! After watching it I realised there might have been a bit too much ammo and health even on HMP, so I've gone and done a few tweaks on the distribution of resources. As for the secret fight:

If there are no other problems that come up in the next few days, this will hopefully be the version that goes on idgames.

Quite enjoyed, though at UV I would rate this as 'extreme challenge' so my run quickly got bogged down in the save/reload swamp. Nonetheless I pushed through and got an exit, didn't find the secret fight. Didn't notice anything broken at all. This is in some ways I think some of the best doom that's come about this year, so thank you for sharing your creativity with us. 

I will echo the first time you get a couple of viles in the mud, you you're sending a message to the player that I do not think is necessarily the right message given the kinds of setups that are to come later. Not that it's the hardest encounter (oh boy, there's a couple in here) but that it's a certain kind of encounter that might convey to the player 'there's some meme shit coming up'. Not the case at all. Your imp trap is one of the best imp traps I've seen. I quite liked how the map escalates to the kinds of fights where congestion in your way to more health and ammo is the main enemy, not any one particular monster combo. I'm going to be looking forward to a max run of this for as long as it takes for some doom god to get it right.

I agree the cybers should be recoloured to convey their health, another point of early despair that shouldn't really matter if it's signposted well. Green guts would suit the general aesthetic.

Once I noticed I was missing one candle to open the main doors I was like 'heck, I will get lost in this place trying to find it' but it turned out to be adjascent. I am always at awe of maps that are in essence linear, like you can go this way or that way but then you get funnelled down a series of setups, but it's not 'placed on a long line of rooms'. Everything looks overconnected but it's not, this gives an impression of a living, real space to explore, but without any of the usual hiccups of a truly non-linear sprawl. You're very talented! I hope you make more! I'll go back and replay at HMP at some point.

 

Incredible map. Looks like me and the guy above had a very similar playthrough. I really enjoyed some of these fights (specifically the claustrophobic imp encounter with the 3 turret viles) and I thought the vile and hell noble cavern was very cool, albeit a bit overcooked. Unfortunately, several of the fights seemed to turn into leaving them as early as possible to overcome the difficulty, but overall I thought this was an excellent experience and an interesting use of friction floors throughout. 

Liked the design and the fights, but the switch hunting got tedious quite fast.

It's been a while, but I'm happy to say that the mudman is now on idgames.

 

On 8/18/2023 at 3:19 PM, Helm said:

Quite enjoyed, though at UV I would rate this as 'extreme challenge' so my run quickly got bogged down in the save/reload swamp. Nonetheless I pushed through and got an exit, didn't find the secret fight. Didn't notice anything broken at all. This is in some ways I think some of the best doom that's come about this year, so thank you for sharing your creativity with us. 

I will echo the first time you get a couple of viles in the mud, you you're sending a message to the player that I do not think is necessarily the right message given the kinds of setups that are to come later. Not that it's the hardest encounter (oh boy, there's a couple in here) but that it's a certain kind of encounter that might convey to the player 'there's some meme shit coming up'. Not the case at all. Your imp trap is one of the best imp traps I've seen. I quite liked how the map escalates to the kinds of fights where congestion in your way to more health and ammo is the main enemy, not any one particular monster combo. I'm going to be looking forward to a max run of this for as long as it takes for some doom god to get it right.

I agree the cybers should be recoloured to convey their health, another point of early despair that shouldn't really matter if it's signposted well. Green guts would suit the general aesthetic.

Once I noticed I was missing one candle to open the main doors I was like 'heck, I will get lost in this place trying to find it' but it turned out to be adjascent. I am always at awe of maps that are in essence linear, like you can go this way or that way but then you get funnelled down a series of setups, but it's not 'placed on a long line of rooms'. Everything looks overconnected but it's not, this gives an impression of a living, real space to explore, but without any of the usual hiccups of a truly non-linear sprawl. You're very talented! I hope you make more! I'll go back and replay at HMP at some point.

 

On 8/22/2023 at 12:49 PM, Meowgi said:

Incredible map. Looks like me and the guy above had a very similar playthrough. I really enjoyed some of these fights (specifically the claustrophobic imp encounter with the 3 turret viles) and I thought the vile and hell noble cavern was very cool, albeit a bit overcooked. Unfortunately, several of the fights seemed to turn into leaving them as early as possible to overcome the difficulty, but overall I thought this was an excellent experience and an interesting use of friction floors throughout. 

On 8/23/2023 at 3:34 PM, TheCyberDruid said:

Liked the design and the fights, but the switch hunting got tedious quite fast.

Thanks for giving my map a go and for the comments, all of you :) I can definitely see some of the issues raised (especially the switch hunts here and there), and I will keep this feedback in mind while I make other maps.

Making and testing Mudman has been a real blast and I'm hoping to finish a few more maps by the end of the year.  Thanks everyone for all the feedback, suggestions and kind words!

Had a blast with this one!  I'd put this up with there with some of my favorite solo challenge maps.  Keep up the great work. :)

I totally forgot to make a review of this wad.

It highly deserved a cacoward. For once, it was a pretty original map. The fact to be slowdown by the liquids made the player to think about his actions, and just for that, it was unique. Good job ! ;)

Finally played this, months later than I intended but better late than never!

This map was a ton of fun and I admire the unique concept of it, even though it can result in some frustration heh. But I'm confident the fights have been well designed and whenever I was salty it was always a matter of not having found the correct strat yet.

The final fight in particular was very fun to learn. Felt like I found a route that should work most of the time at least, barring any skill issues like being badly positioned and catching a rocket or something :)

Thanks for the map! Hell of a way to be emerging into the community.

Played on HMP as recommended. Excellent level, enjoyed the concept and many set pieces, made for some unique scenarios and too many close calls. Didn't like the finale much though, personal preferences, but everything else up until then makes up for that. The cave encounter with AV/HKs was above my capabilities but somehow managed to scrape by with patience.

Here's a full review: https://taw.duke4.net/2024/01/doom2/mudman/

Thanks for the detailed review, @quakis! That was a fun read. I'm glad you enjoyed the BFG cyber fight, since that was one of the fights I was less confident in when I released the level. I agree the finale (and the secret fight, if you found that) is probably not for everyone, but thanks for getting through it anyways :)

About the vile turret fight: I have no idea why I balanced it that way on HMP. On both UV and HNTR there's a megasphere which allows you to tank more vile blasts if need be, but at the time I must have thought that changing a couple barons in UV to hell knights justified bumping the megasphere down to a soulsphere. Seeing how much people struggled with the fight, I probably would have left the megasphere there. I could have sworn I put some monster blocking lines around the vile turrets to stop them from falling off, but after looking at it in the editor I apparently didn't. Oh well.

Once again, thanks for reviewing Mudman! Happy to hear you liked it.