MFG38 Posted May 16, 2021 (edited) So, you're looking to host your first Doom community project. You want to get a bunch of people together to make maps for a set curated by you. You have an awesome idea you thought up just before going to bed last night and excitedly announce it the next morning - but along the way, something goes wrong. Why hasn't your project seen a single map submitted even after a month? The reason, more often than not, can be found by looking in the mirror. Yes, you are the reason your community project idea didn't take off - or more accurately, that initial forum post in which you announced your community project is the reason it failed. So what exactly went wrong? Read on and find out! This post will hopefully serve as a checklist of things to pinpoint the most fatal faults in your community project announcement and refine it so that the likelihood of it catching people's interest will be at least slightly higher. That said, please don't treat this post as a be-all and end-all guide to hosting a CP - just because you closely followed every point here isn't guaranteed to make your CP a mega-hit. When should I host a community project? The most important question you can ask yourself prior to hosting a community project is this: Am I mature enough to host a CP? By "mature", I don't mean your physical or mental age, but rather, I mean your mapping skills and overall knowledge of Doom. Now you don't have to be as great a mapper as Jimmy or Bridgeburner in order to host a successful community project, but at the very least, you should know the fundamentals of what makes a map good. Being able to point out flaws in people's maps, whether they be in presentation or gameplay, and provide suggestions as to how to improve them is an essential skill. Unless the goal of your CP is to be a grabbag of more or less random maps with extremely varying degrees of quality, which can also work in some instances (see Tenth Gear and Half Moon). You should also have some knowledge of your target source port and how things in it work. This will be a great help in the compiling process in case you need to make corrections to people's maps. Maybe someone defined the custom sky for a Boom map in ZMAPINFO instead of using the MBF sky transfer, hence it only works in GZDoom. These sorts of things are very likely to happen, especially if someone is making their first map(s), and being able to detect and fix these issues is an important skill that will help in making the final mapset that much more polished and bug-free. What should I specify in my OP? This is by no means a comprehensive list of things you should specify in your OP when it comes to announcing a community project, but generally, it's a good idea to include at least the following information: Target IWAD Target source port (+ target complevel if applicable) and/or map format General rules/guidelines Resource pack and its download link (or policy regarding custom assets) Submission deadline Also, whip up a template for map submissions. Trust me, it'll save you a lot of suffering as time goes on. General guidelines Write your OP properly. Believe it or not, presentation matters, even and especially when it comes to announcing a CP. Proper writing and formatting helps immensely towards making it that much more likely to succeed. Capitalize the first letter of every sentence, use proper punctuation, double-check and triple-check your post for grammatical/spelling errors. A well-written OP is half a successful CP. Be the driving force. Hosting a successful community project is much more than announcing it and waiting for map submissions. Nobody wants to work with (read: for) someone who doesn't show any signs of wanting to contribute anything towards their own project. This also ties to the above in that an OP that exudes enthusiasm from the person hosting the project is more inviting than an OP written by someone who clearly doesn't care. Show people that you are able and willing to put in the work necessary to make your CP as great as possible. Be transparent. What this means is that you should be honest with your participants. Don't automatically tell everyone that their map is great - if something needs improving, tell them about it. If you don't like something in a map, tell the mapper what you didn't like about it and why. If you reject an entry, tell the mapper why their entry is being rejected. That said, try not to let your personal preferences cloud your judgement too much. Be as objective as you can. Allow people to learn. A good leader lets people grow - this also applies to you as the leader of a CP. When you run into an issue in a map, don't rush to open up your map editor and fix it for the person that made it. Let them know about the issue and fix it themselves. Guide them through the process if needed. Allow your participants to feel accomplished and feel that sense of personal growth, however small it may ultimately be for them. Keep your participants on the loop. This is especially important when hosting a CP that's likely to stretch over a longer period of time. You don't necessarily have to post about the project's progress every week, however. The most important thing to keep in mind here is to let people know when you expect their submissions to be ready. Post reminders about the deadline when it gets close. Also, don't disappear mysteriously while your CP is still ongoing. Keep your expectations reasonable. This should go without saying, but if your OP is a poorly written mess and you're not showing any signs of being willing to contribute to your own project, you're extremely unlikely to see your CP becoming a full 32-level megawad. You'll be lucky to see a single map submission. Don't complain if no one has submitted a map to your project after a mere week. Edited May 16, 2021 by MFG38 121 Share this post Link to post
Biodegradable Posted May 16, 2021 I look forward to linking this to newbies all the time hehe :^P This is a great write-up, dude. Should hopefully prove really useful. 14 Share this post Link to post
Horus Posted May 16, 2021 Very well written and very important advice! 5 Share this post Link to post
MFG38 Posted May 16, 2021 23 minutes ago, Biodegradable said: I look forward to linking this to newbies all the time hehe :^P This is a great write-up, dude. Should hopefully prove really useful. 10 minutes ago, Horus said: Very well written and very important advice! Heh, thanks! Glad it proved informative. :) 1 Share this post Link to post
4MaTC Posted May 16, 2021 I think this should be pinned too as well as "new to posting maps". Very usefull and i hope it serves well to everybody who is thinking about CP. 10 Share this post Link to post
Moustachio Posted May 16, 2021 Great guide! I wish I had something like this to reflect on before doing the Interception series because there are a lot of useful common-sense points here. Points that are especially easy to overlook when hosting a community project that takes a while. 6 Share this post Link to post
Doom_Dude Posted May 16, 2021 49 minutes ago, Moustachio said: Great guide! I wish I had something like this to reflect on before doing the Interception series because there are a lot of useful common-sense points here. Points that are especially easy to overlook when hosting a community project that takes a while. Ain't it the truth. I wish I had a guide before doing the Newdoom Community project megawad. 2 hours ago, MFG38 said: Also, don't disappear mysteriously while your CP is still ongoing. That was my biggest issue but it wasn't myself that disappeared it was some of the participants. Some that took map slots, made nothing and were hard to track down. So you know, mappers out there, if you take a slot for a CP and can't make anything, at least let the project know about it before you decide to completely vanish. 4 Share this post Link to post
MFG38 Posted May 16, 2021 2 minutes ago, Doom_Dude said: mappers out there, if you take a slot for a CP and can't make anything, at least let the project know about it before you decide to completely vanish. This is a very important point that you raise here. I'll admit to being guilty of attaching myself to a CP and then failing to deliver on a few occasions, but I always had the courtesy to tell the host if I had to drop out for one reason or another. 3 Share this post Link to post
Hitboi Posted May 16, 2021 Great Information and well written, I guess that it's easy to make a CP. 0 Share this post Link to post
TheNoob_Gamer Posted May 16, 2021 (edited) Very helpful thread. I want to use this opportunity to post an example of making an OP @rd. did some time ago on a thread of mine also asking about how to CP. Quote Example of a bad OP: Spoiler Hello everyone my project is the 256x256 map project and the goal will be to create non-linear maps that are beautiful and take place in the space of a 256x256 area. I feel like brevity is greatly underappreciated in this day and age and I think that everyone is going for the biggest maps possible but that small maps should be possible to do well. All source ports are welcome as long as they are compatible with Doomsday models. You can submit up to two maps for the project. Basically, I want to keep slots open so that a lot of the community can contribute, which wouldn't be possible if one person submits 10 maps. The maps can be any style you want, from slaughtermaps to adventure maps to puzzle maps, but I want the gameplay and the visuals to both be attractive, regardless of what style you use. If you make a slaughtermap, don't spam monsters, place them tactically in your layout. Likewise, puzzle maps should have a solution and not require the player to look up the map in the editor. Adventure maps should not be confusing slogs. The name of the community project is still undecided but I'll let you know when I think of a good one. Alternatively, you can provide suggestions for the name below and I might take them into consideration. It doesn't matter if you're in the project or not: I'll give you credit for the name. The story is that in the planet of X'4l23;4leeuia, the demons ran out of chainsaws so they came to Earth to get more chainsaws. (The story by the way also requires that all maps have multiple chainsaws in them!) Their alien ship arrived suddenly and spectacularly and the buxom marine donned his shotgun and shouted meticulously, "Wow! That's a lot of demons!" The plangent echos rang out all around the yonder world. Everyone knew: it was time to fucken' roll? The story will take place between two worlds, both earth and X'4l23;4leeuia, and I will accept maps for both episodes (no more than 50 maps each). You can use whatever textures you want as long as they are compatible with Doom 2 and in the Doom 2 textures. If you submit two maps I'd request that they be in different worlds so that you don't hog up too many maps from one episode. If you submit a map I'll ask that it be beatable, and we'll have a phase where people will playtest the maps in order to make sure that they are balanced and generally enjoyable. Mappers of all levels of experience are welcome! Example of a good OP: I've been a part of this community for a while and it's the first time I'm hosting a community project, so I hope it's successful. I want to finish the project sometime this year and it will be for vanilla. Hi everyone, Chainsaw Rampage is a 256x256 restriction project centered around two episodes: Earth, and an alien planet. Each episode will contain up to 50 maps, depending on how many submissions we get. The goal is to create non-linear maps that are beautiful and take place in a small area. I feel brevity is greatly underappreciated in this day and age. Story On the planet of X'4l23;4leeuia, the demons ran out of chainsaws so they came to Earth to get more. Their alien ship arrived suddenly and spectacularly and the buxom marine donned his shotgun and shouted meticulously, "Wow! That's a lot of demons!" The plangent echos rang out all around the yonder world. Everyone knew: it was time to fucken' roll? Project Specifications Use only stock textures. Maps must be compatible with Doomsday. We will be using models instead of sprites. The playable area of a map must not exceed 256x256 map units. In keeping with the story, all maps must have multiple chainsaws! There will be two episodes: Earth and an alien planet. Each will contain up to 50 maps. Submissions You can submit up to two maps. If you submit two maps, one must be for the Earth episode and the other for the alien-planet episode. Playtest your maps. At the end, we'll playtest the maps as a group so that they are balanced and generally enjoyable, but I'd prefer if the maps are functional before that. The deadline is September 30, 2020. Mappers of all levels of experience are welcome! Guidelines and Other Commentary Spoiler The two-submission restriction exists to keep slots open so that a lot of the community can contribute. You can map any style you want, from slaughtermaps to adventure maps to puzzle maps, but I want the gameplay and the visuals to both be attractive, regardless of what style you use. If you make a slaughtermap, don't spam monsters; place them tactically in your layout. Likewise, puzzle maps should have a solution and not require the player to look up the map in the editor. Adventure maps should not be confusing slogs. [Blah blah blah more text here blah blah blah.] If you're almost done before the deadline let me know, show me your work, and I might extend it for you while we test the other maps -- but I don't want this to be abused! The two-submission restriction exists to keep slots open so that a lot of the community can contribute. You can map any style you want, from slaughtermaps to adventure maps to puzzle maps, but I want the gameplay and the visuals to both be attractive, regardless of what style you use. If you make a slaughtermap, don't spam monsters; place them tactically in your layout. Likewise, puzzle maps should have a solution and not require the player to look up the map in the editor. Adventure maps should not be confusing slogs. [Blah blah blah more text here blah blah blah.] If you're almost done before the deadline let me know, show me your work, and I might extend it for you while we test the other maps -- but I don't want this to be abused! Signup List Dobu Gabu Maru 31 minutes ago, Hitboi said: Great Information and well written, I guess that it's easy to make a CP. Indeed. But the real part is how to maintain it :) 10 Share this post Link to post
MFG38 Posted May 16, 2021 Oh hey, the thread got pinned. I appreciate the honor. 7 Share this post Link to post
continuum.mid Posted May 16, 2021 These are things I've tried to follow with my community MIDI pack as well. I waited to started it until I'd already started on two of my own submissions. I know that I appreciate (but never really get) feedback, and thus reciprocity demands that I provide any constructive feedback I can think of to participants. And I always remind people two days before their deadline approaches in case they need more time. 2 Share this post Link to post
Bauul Posted May 16, 2021 (edited) I've run a couple of CPs, and the biggest advice I can give is: Make firm decisions about what you want, and stick to them Not to say you can't be flexible, but I've seen CPs derail extremely quickly the moment the OP says "I don't know, what do you guys think?". If you start letting the rules be decided by popular consensus, it'll instantly devolve into debate rather than progress. Take advice into consideration, but be the decision maker, and stick to your rules. Don't change them halfway through because someone asked you to, or because someone said "wouldn't it be cool if...". Have a vision, communicate it clearly, and see it through. This is also why it's useful to have experience of Doom mapping under your belt already to be able to more easily make these decisions. 21 Share this post Link to post
Pegleg Posted May 17, 2021 "Take advice into consideration, but be the decision maker, and stick to your rules." This is absolutely true. I have seen community project with rule sets that people considered to be too oppressive, but the project lead had a particular vision for what they wanted and stuck to those rules, and the projects turned out fine. In these cases, leadership tends to be the key. My only addition to the notion of "stick to your rules" is to be transparent about what those rules are, in their entirety. The OP states to be honest with the participants, and this is part of it. Have whatever rules you want to have, but make sure they're clearly known. All the rules need to be laid out and clear to all participants. If you, as the project lead, want a particular thing, then say it. If you remain vague, and then reject maps because they don't meet your hidden standard, that just breeds resentment and people will be less likely to join the project. For example, do not write, "Rule 1: I want maps focused on projectiles that are reminiscent of maps from the first episode of Doom 2," when what you really mean is, "Rule 1: I want maps that feel like The Crusher where the only weapon is the plasma gun and the only enemies are cyberdemons." If you plan on accepting maps that don't meet your unspoken desire, then it's fine to be relatively vague, but if you start rejected maps because they're not what you really want, then that becomes a problem. Even worse, don't then say, "Well, I called the mapset 'Crushing Cows with Plasma,' so it should have been obvious to everyone what I really wanted." 5 Share this post Link to post
Dubbag Posted June 2, 2021 (edited) When I started Tenth Gear and Half Moon. I had no idea what I was getting into. But we made it work and made a lot of good friends along the way and accumulated a lot of knowledge. One thing to note is the project is NOT about yourself. Make sure you do right by your contributors. No matter what it takes get that set done and make sure you do your best to do it right. Those people took time out of their day to contribute to you, take the time to contribute back. Edited June 6, 2021 by Dubbag 5 Share this post Link to post
Sammy J Posted June 7, 2021 I'm working on a Doom 2 project at the moment. If I'm good enough to complete everything I intend to do, it will be available for others to use in community projects if they ask me for permission. I'll be making regular status updates on my profile, mostly going through the most important processes to get the entire project up to the standard I want to achieve. If anybody's interested in providing feedback, I'll always find it helpful! 0 Share this post Link to post
TMD Posted June 11, 2021 Dont host anything in May That month is already taken :3 5 Share this post Link to post
Peccatum Mihzamiz Posted June 11, 2021 After having participated in a few editions I was asked/offered by somebody to host an edition of their community project. Very kind of them and I was honored to be asked. I politely declined. I have been involved with Doom for less than a year, so I thanked them for the opportunity and told them I would feel more comfortable in the (near) future. Acknowledging your own limitations is a good thing when taking on the lead in a project I think. I think offering these kind of chances is really trusting and it can inspire and bring out qualities in a person they might not have known they had before. In any community there are always some 'established people' that offer this kind of support to the new ones and I love that. It builds confidence and brings forward hidden talent. Plus it's a great learning experience for the person organising for the first time. Very thankful to not just see people create their own projects, but also see relatively new people being asked for these kinds of things. 7 Share this post Link to post
ViolentBeetle Posted August 28, 2021 Want to have an Ultimate Doom project, but unsure if the time is right since there's already UD stuff going on. 1 Share this post Link to post
MattFright Posted August 28, 2021 @ViolentBeetle I feel like you definitely should. From the CPs out there i've seen lately, most are very niche or already all claimed, and so i've seen a few people claiming that there isn't much currently going on in terms of community projects, so on that note i feel like you shouldn't struggle too much finding people who'd join yours. 1 Share this post Link to post
UnusualBug Posted November 9, 2021 I'll give it a try. Been trying to make maps of my own. 0 Share this post Link to post
Nevander Posted November 22, 2021 So I had an idea along the same vein as the idea behind this thread. A thread maintaining the current active community projects until released might be a handy thread for people looking to join one without digging through threads and not being sure if they are still active in development. 2 Share this post Link to post
Horus Posted November 22, 2021 10 hours ago, Nevander said: So I had an idea along the same vein as the idea behind this thread. A thread maintaining the current active community projects until released might be a handy thread for people looking to join one without digging through threads and not being sure if they are still active in development. Don’t think it’s been updated in a while, but: 1 Share this post Link to post
MFG38 Posted November 22, 2021 59 minutes ago, Horus said: Don’t think it’s been updated in a while Yeah, the last update on that thread looks to be from April of 2020. 0 Share this post Link to post
baja blast rd. Posted August 30, 2023 Just some extra advice from observing many community projects that have started with lots of energy but then fizzled out or ended up in some indefinite hiatus, sometimes with the project runner ignoring participants in the thread for months. There's been a common thing lately where less experienced people will jump into leading a project gung-ho, not realizing the back-end commitment it involves, so this post is so that those project runners know what to expect (or can decide to wait until they are more experienced, which is a good option too). All of this will be basic and obvious to people who've run a couple of successful projects, but many of those fizzled-out projects have been started without a lot of this knowledge. Basic truth: What might not be obvious is that starting a project thread and making your own map is often the easy part. One of the most important skills for a community project leader is being able to put the wad together and release it. That means: - compiling people's submissions into a wad file that runs properly - tracking people's updates as they post them in the thread in order to update that file -- this sounds simple but people have messed it up by not catching update posts - posting updated beta/RC versions of the wad as needed - eventually getting the finished version of the wad onto an archive like /idgames That isn't an exhaustive list of management skills or anything. There's also playtesting submissions, answering participants' questions, general communication, managing the initial resource wad or any modded changes if you choose to make those, dealing with people who try to commandeer mapslots because e1m1 doesn't look enough like what it says it is any conflict, and more. But managing the .wad file is super important, and you should go in expecting to learn how to do it well, rather than feeling putting everything together will be a quick, tacked-on hitch at the end. It's a major, usually ongoing part of the process. One quick useful self-filter would be to ask yourself if this is a part of the project you're willing to handle, or to learn how to handle. If the answer is "Fuck no, I want to lead a community project; I didn't say anything about finishing one!" then that's a sign to not jump into starting the project. If your response is "That sounds like it could be tricky, but I'm willing to learn," that's a much healthier mindset because that work is not exactly trivial for people who haven't done it before. - A suggestion would be to start acquainting yourself with how to manage and compile a wad before starting the thread, gaining some comfort with the basic tools and workflow you might use. A lot of good project runners seem to already have many of these skills from their own work when they first manage a project, so practicing more ambitious asset management in a release of your own (replaced music, custom textures, intermission screens -- or anything else you want to do) can be treated as building block to managing a project that aims to do all of that. I say building block because projects with other people involved have more complexity, naturally. This isn't meant to be a comprehensive advice post about how tos (every important subskill can be its own post, and maybe someone should write those), but here's a simple roadmap you can use to go seek out those skills: Get comfortable using SLADE (or DoomTools, or however else you might want to work). Regularly consult the DoomWiki, which you can use to patch certain knowledge gaps -- reading a page on a concept can teach you a lot about it and let you know what questions to ask. Seek out pinned threads because those have useful info, like about idgames. Ask questions in the editing forum if needed (no one is going to be like "omg you started a project without knowing how to change intermission screens, you're under arrest"); being willing to ask for help about what you don't understand is a good sign. Use some kind of spreadsheet or document (thanks finnks13) to track submissions, especially bits like "the most recently submitted version of this person's map" or "whether someone submitted an update," instead of just relying on downloading files and hoping to remember what the most recent versions are, which can be very error-prone. 27 Share this post Link to post
DoomGappy Posted September 17, 2023 I think this thread needs a little bit of an expansion. It certainly does tell newcomers what it takes to start a community project lead in general, but it doesn't go into detail about what those things are. I propose a small list of skills and how to acquire them to be appended in the post, from most basic to most difficult. Things like teleporter traps, self referencing sectors, mock sectors, scripting, etc. Also separating them by tier level. For example, if you want to start a boom compatible project, you only need certain skills. If you want your project to receive udmf submissions, you should have other types of skills. I think this would make people's learning curve flow smoother. These categorizations would probably allow mappers to get a better feel for where they stand and what they can achieve with their skillset, and also what would be the next step on their mapping learning process. 0 Share this post Link to post
MFG38 Posted September 17, 2023 15 minutes ago, jo2ukegappy said: I think this thread needs a little bit of an expansion. [...] I propose a small list of skills and how to acquire them to be appended in the post, from most basic to most difficult. Things like teleporter traps, self referencing sectors, mock sectors, scripting, etc. Covering mapping tricks would be going beyond the scope of the thread. Several online tutorials and the Doom Editing subforum already exist for that purpose - the idea of my OP is to simply tell aspiring CP hosts what to do and not do when it comes to actually running such a project. And rd's post, especially the last paragraph, already has some solid advice regarding actual editing skills one might find useful. If there's enough demand, I might provide some links to useful editing resources, but turning this thread into a mapping/modding tutorial megathread would defeat its entire point when such topics are already extensively covered elsewhere. 3 Share this post Link to post
baja blast rd. Posted September 17, 2023 35 minutes ago, jo2ukegappy said: I think this thread needs a little bit of an expansion. It certainly does tell newcomers what it takes to start a community project lead in general, but it doesn't go into detail about what those things are. I propose a small list of skills and how to acquire them to be appended in the post, from most basic to most difficult. IMO this post has some flawed assumptions embedded in it, and is solving a problem that doesn't need to be solved. The simple fact is that newcomers who have no/little experience with releasing something of their own should not be starting community projects yet. You will gain a lot of the required skills by managing your own solo project that requires you to grapple with tools like SLADE and learn how to upload to idgames, etc. And at that point you won't really need a thread to walk you through very basic skills. Spoiler This is more of a recent phenomenon, but lately there have been people who don't even have a first map out starting projects (which, predictably, go badly). There was even someone who started a project on their first day and couldn't manage the thread because they ran into the first day post limit. A lot of those people shouldn't be starting projects at all yet. 35 minutes ago, jo2ukegappy said: Things like teleporter traps, self referencing sectors, mock sectors, scripting, etc. Also separating them by tier level. All of these are just mapping devices of various degrees of complexity and don't have much to do with specifically managing a community project. 6 Share this post Link to post
