Could the Sega CD have run Doom ?

20 minutes ago, Blzut3 said:

This is of course the answer for strictly the question the OP asked, but it would be possible to use a cartridge with the Sega CD (at least I assume that's the case since I haven't been told otherwise).  This of course goes back to it would look more or less the same as trying to get Doom running on the base system (which home brew suggests that something that could qualify as Doom is possible even if severe edits would be required).  There is the open question on if the Sega CD coprocessors could be used to accelerate the game in any meaningful way (i.e. the transfer from the coprocessor to the base system doesn't render any improvement moot), and if the CD could be used to meaningfully expand the game content (i.e. load levels from the CD).

The Sega CD has a mode that allows a game to boot from cartridge (either Mega Drive or 32X) but take advantage of Sega CD capabilities. However it is very undocumented, the only game I know to use this is Doom 32X Resurrection, no official games ever made use of this (games labelled "Sega CD 32X" were on CD, no cartridge).

Arkagis: Escape also supports Segacd cpu for extra performance, but only a demo is out so far.

On 7/16/2023 at 10:47 AM, TasAcri said:

On the other hand, Duke Nukem on the Genesis is just Wolfenstein 3D with a Duke sprite mod on top of it. Because technically, it does the same things the original Wolfenstein 3D does and almost none of what Duke Nukem 3D does. Same with other DOOM projects where the only thing similar to Doom is some art assets and the fact that it's in first person.

While I agree on level design, you are forgetting game mechanics: Weapons, enemies, itens -  it's all there on the mega drive game and in that sense is undoubtedly Duke 3D. I don't think that's enough to be considered a port (it doesn't even try to be one tbh), but calling it a sprite mod is a bit unjustified imo

5 hours ago, Blzut3 said:

This is of course the answer for strictly the question the OP asked, but it would be possible to use a cartridge with the Sega CD (at least I assume that's the case since I haven't been told otherwise).  This of course goes back to it would look more or less the same as trying to get Doom running on the base system (which home brew suggests that something that could qualify as Doom is possible even if severe edits would be required).  There is the open question on if the Sega CD coprocessors could be used to accelerate the game in any meaningful way (i.e. the transfer from the coprocessor to the base system doesn't render any improvement moot), and if the CD could be used to meaningfully expand the game content (i.e. load levels from the CD).

Theoretically it WOULD be possible - there were a handful of games that combined the 32X along with the Sega CD. Specifically, six of them - but all six were FMV games, and mainly used the 32X in order to get higher color fidelity compared to their regular Sega CD counterparts. These games worked by plugging in both the 32X and the Sega CD, but only the Sega CD had something actually loaded into it - the 32X had no cartridge put into its slot.

Something like that would be a lot more workable, if the CD was used basically as a storage medium and the 32X held all the graphical data, did the sound, etc. etc. Of course, at that point, you're really not using the Sega CD for much of anything, and I'm not sure what actually does the rendering under the combined system (my guess is the 32X due to the higher color palette though).

Oh, as an aside...

9 hours ago, Individualised said:

 

One of these games is considered an all-time classic, one of them is largely forgotten. Whoever wrote this certainly would be eating crow nowadays. :P

2 minutes ago, Dark Pulse said:

Something like that would be a lot more workable, if the CD was used basically as a storage medium and the 32X held all the graphical data, did the sound, etc. etc. Of course, at that point, you're really not using the Sega CD for much of anything, and I'm not sure what actually does the rendering under the combined system (my guess is the 32X due to the higher color palette though).

The discussion here would be in regards to the Genesis by itself vs the Sega CD w/ cartridge (trying to take advantage of the faster/second 68k, possibly the scaling hardware, for higher frame rates).  Bringing the 32x into this discussion is pointless since I'm fairly sure the CPUs in there vastly out class the 68ks and there's obviously already a port of Doom.  The amount of work necessary to coordinate that disparate of hardware to boost frame rates would surely eat up any benefit.  I would agree, in that scenario the Sega CD wouldn't be useful for much more than what 32X Resurrection already uses it for.

Wolf3D is the best the SegaCD could manage on its own without the 32X and a RAM/ROM cart in Mode1.

I think this graphic could also be done on the Mega CD, perhaps even in better quality? Wolfenstein 3D already runs on a stock Mega Drive, as GASEGA68K has impressively proven with its port.

4 hours ago, Marsguy said:

 

I think this graphic could also be done on the Mega CD, perhaps even in better quality? Wolfenstein 3D already runs on a stock Mega Drive, as GASEGA68K has impressively proven with its port.

The Amiga's graphics modes are much more suited to this. The Mega Drive (and by extension, the Mega CD) doesn't even have a bitmap graphics mode. That places a huge bottleneck on what you can do. The BSP engine already posted is probably as good as possible on the Mega Drive.

The Genesis/Mega Drive did have Virtua Racing:

If memory serves correctly, this was initially a 32X game but was soon released on the base console with an additional chip inside the cartridge (much like how Nintendo did this with the Super-FX chip that was put into certain cartridges like Star Fox and Pilot Wings).

It does make me wonder if, perhaps, something like this could have worked to have made a Doom game?

5 hours ago, CravenCoyote said:

(much like how Nintendo did this with the Super-FX chip that was put into certain cartridges like Star Fox and Pilot Wings).

I'm not sure if you knew or not but Doom on the SNES used the Super FX. Pilotwings also did not use it, it was a launch title lol. It does use the DSP-1 but that's because the DSP-1 was actually included in pre-production models of the SNES before being cut for cost reasons.

16 minutes ago, Individualised said:

I'm not sure if you knew or not but Doom on the SNES used the Super FX. Pilotwings also did not use it, it was a launch title lol. It does use the DSP-1 but that's because the DSP-1 was actually included in pre-production models of the SNES before being cut for cost reasons.

In honesty, I know little about SNES because I was a Sega kid growing up. Not out of choice, it was just what we had in our home and there was no way we could have managed to afford both. I did think the Super FX was available from launch though - so learned something new!

1 minute ago, CravenCoyote said:

 

In honesty, I know little about SNES because I was a Sega kid growing up. Not out of choice, it was just what we had in our home and there was no way we could have managed to afford both. I did think the Super FX was available from launch though - so learned something new!

Yeah, the Super FX wasn't available until 1993 - think of it as equivalent of the 32X, except it came out much earlier and wasn't available as a separate addon. Doom (and Yoshi's Island, Star Fox 2, Winter Gold) actually used the Super FX 2, which obviously wasn't available until even later.

16 hours ago, CravenCoyote said:

It does make me wonder if, perhaps, something like this could have worked to have made a Doom game?

Certainly.

It also would've made the cartridge about $100/£70.

3 hours ago, Dark Pulse said:

Certainly.

 

It also would've made the cartridge about $100/£70.

£70 seems very reasonable when you consider the games typically retailed around the £50 mark. I guess Virtua Racing probably had a similar price to what you're suggesting 

9 hours ago, CravenCoyote said:

 

£70 seems very reasonable when you consider the games typically retailed around the £50 mark. I guess Virtua Racing probably had a similar price to what you're suggesting 

That's exactly the price I am quoting, yes.

And keep in mind this is in mid-90s money, which was worth a lot more. This cartridge would've been about half of the price of the hardware, perhaps even two-thirds.

Yeah, there's a few reasons there was never a second game using the SVP chip - it was Stupid Expensive, the Genesis was old enough that making the games Stupid Expensive wouldn't fly, and the games using it were incompatible with the 32X, which was on the verge of release and did similar things better.

8 hours ago, Kinsie said:

Yeah, there's a few reasons there was never a second game using the SVP chip - it was Stupid Expensive, the Genesis was old enough that making the games Stupid Expensive wouldn't fly, and the games using it were incompatible with the 32X, which was on the verge of release and did similar things better.

Correct.

IIRC, the closest Sega got to the idea was that of having the SVP chip as a sort of "base" cartridge, and games that used the chip being sold in a cheaper form because they could plug into it (like a Game Genie or Sonic & Knuckles), but that never took off for pretty much the exact reasons you mentioned.