[Final release] “Hell's Bane” - an Ult Doom megawad

Little bug: on E2M3 sector 298 is, presumably accidently damaging.

9 hours ago, Vermil said:

Little bug: on E2M3 sector 298 is, presumably accidently damaging.

Thank you! I'll fix it right away. It's one of my most common mistakes. I try to pay more attention to things like that yet still it slithers its way into my wads.

I asked this before in a DM, but to be sure: Is this mapset meant for Boom compatibility? The inbuilt demos all use Ultimate Doom compatibility, which is why I'm wondering.

It's Boom comp. The demos would desync badly if I recorded them in one sourceport and play them in another. So I used -complevel 2 to record them to make sure they'd play properly in all sourceports.

1 minute ago, Chris Hansen said:

It's Boom comp. The demos would desync badly if I recorded them in one sourceport and play them in another. So I used -complevel 2 to record them to make sure they'd play properly in all sourceports.

I guess you can just edit this into the title. It's much easier to see, or it's already a tradition here too.

I guess I could do that, but I really don't like too long titles. I prefer people clicking it and reading the info inside the thread. If they can't be bothered to do that, then 36 Ult Doom levels probably won't be their cup of tee anyway :D

Edit: I'll meet you in the middle. Added a couple of Boom comp notes in the OP for clarity. I hope it's clearer now :)

1 hour ago, Chris Hansen said:

The demos would desync badly if I recorded them in one sourceport and play them in another.

That shouldn't be true if you use -complevel 9; any port with demo capability and UMAPINFO support (DSDA, Woof, PrBoom+UM, PrBoomX, Eternity) can play a complevel 9 demo just fine as long as it's recorded without any port-specific extensions or extra autoloaded stuff.

The reason I bring this up is because if you specify -complevel 9 when loading the wad, the internal demos will desync in dsda-doom or PrBoom+. Woof seems to be OK.

But in Woof (or Nugget Doom) if you *don't* specify a complevel, relying on the port's default complevel setting, when the demo plays it will set the complevel to 2 and new games will start at that complevel. This can probably be fixed (I'll file a bug), and it's a situation where any port can work properly if you know the right way to run it, but it would probably simplify things if the demos were complevel 9 instead.

edit: The problem is more complicated than it appears; hold off a second on doing anything. I think it's the special UMAPINFO demo that is causing problems with Woof specifically.

edit2: There's an issue with Woof and loading games after a demo plays, so you can ignore everything I wrote about that. Nonetheless the DSDA-Doom complevel issue remains.

I added E1M3 and E1M9 to the playlist at my other post. I really like that I can finish the maps in around 10 minutes so far.

Finding the secret exit in E1M3 wasn't too hard.

I'm really wondering about the door coloring. I still think that green doors are supposed to be remotely operated, at least that's what I gathered from E1M1 and E1M2. Is that correct? Because it doesn't follow that color coding in E1M9, and I really like the idea of how door behave depending on their color.

Also in E1M9 you can't see the blue key until it gets lowered. Is that intentional? I think it might be possible to raise the ceiling in the surrounding sectors, so that you can see it before getting access to it (which I personally prefer).

double post, sorry

21 hours ago, plums said:

That shouldn't be true if you use -complevel 9; any port with demo capability and UMAPINFO support (DSDA, Woof, PrBoom+UM, PrBoomX, Eternity) can play a complevel 9 demo just fine as long as it's recorded without any port-specific extensions or extra autoloaded stuff.

Thanks for trying to help me clear things up. I wonder when I'll ever be able to fully understand all this complevel stuff. I don't why I constantly mess up. I tried recording demos with PrBoom+ and they desynced in another port (can't remember which one). And I did some searching and found a post here on DW that talked about recording demos with -complevel 2 to avoid problems. Yet here we are and there are still problems. I've never experiences it myself as I just fire up the megawad without any parametres. I just load it and go. Maybe that's a problem too.

Anyway, what are your recommendations? New demos recorded with -complevel 9 parameter?

21 hours ago, boris said:

I'm really wondering about the door coloring. I still think that green doors are supposed to be remotely operated, at least that's what I gathered from E1M1 and E1M2. Is that correct? Because it doesn't follow that color coding in E1M9, and I really like the idea of how door behave depending on their color.

It's funny. I never really thought about this way but I can see the logic in it. I might do as you suggest and color code doors. I've always just chosen door colors randomly to spice things up, never really gave it much thought besides maybe using green doors when we're in the bowels of a nukeage filled base and silver when we're more in the upper levels of a base. Anyway, I'll take a look at it to see if I can implement your suggestion. Thanks for playing and thank you for uploading to Youtube!

21 hours ago, boris said:

Also in E1M9 you can't see the blue key until it gets lowered. Is that intentional? I think it might be possible to raise the ceiling in the surrounding sectors, so that you can see it before getting access to it (which I personally prefer).

It's a very old level from back in the day when I didn't think about such things. Again, I see your logic and will try making it visible in some way.

2 minutes ago, Chris Hansen said:

Thanks for trying to help me clear things up. I wonder when I'll ever be able to fully understand all this complevel stuff. I don't why I constantly mess up. I tried recording demos with PrBoom+ and they desynced in another port (can't remember which one). And I did some searching and found a post here on DW that talked about recording demos with -complevel 2 to avoid problems. Yet here we are and there are still problems. I've never experiences it myself as I just fire up the megawad without any parametres. I just load it and go. Maybe that's a problem too.

 

Anyway, what are your recommendations? New demos recorded with -complevel 9 parameter?

Ultimately it's only a minor problem (and less important than I originally thought, before I realized that Woof had a bug) so I wouldn't stress about it too much. But if you were to record new demos I would use dsda-doom, turn on the "strict mode" option for demo recording, and then use -complevel 9. I can even make some for you, if you'd like. But let's wait until you know there are no more changes to the maps that demos will be recorded on.

What port(s) do you usually play with yourself?

Thank you, plums! I'll try and not stress about it for now :) I'd like help with those demos, that would be cool. And yes, let's wait a bit with it until there are no more changes.

I use PrBoom+ 2.6.66 ucrt64, DSDA-Doom 0.26.2 (only installed 0.27.4 two days ago) and GZDoom 4.11 pre222 x64.

I also have Woof 11.3.0 x64, Crispy 6.0.0 x64, Chocolate 3.0.1, Edge Classic 1.34.1 x64 and Retro 4.9.2 x64 installed but very rarely use them.

22 hours ago, Chris Hansen said:

Edit: I'll meet you in the middle. Added a couple of Boom comp notes in the OP for clarity. I hope it's clearer now :)

Ult Boom Megawad :p

E2M6: You can just barely see past the edge of the horizon through a window. Also a weird slime trail.

E3M2: I got stuck in this secret area with the soulsphere, the linedef to lower the door is W1 so if you cross it when that sector hasn't gone back to normal, you can't get out. Changing it to WR will probably fix it.

Liked E2 a lot, I didn't play Monument but I played most of the maps it was made of, in their original form. I vaguely remembered a lot of areas but it's been so long I couldn't tell you what was new.

Thanks. I’ll take a look at those bugs asap. Good to hear that you enjoyed E2 :)

Chris, I'm starting to play your wad. The classic doom atmosphere envelops you. As I complete it I will give you more details. For now I have played E1M01-03. There should be more megawads like this. Thanks for ur great work mate.

Gals you’re enjoying it @Bertt91. 

This is my kind of megawad. Excellent design, no gimmicks, solid game play, tons of fun. Thanks, Chris!

I's just that I can't get 100% secrets in E1M5 and it's driving me nuts. Yep, I'm one of those people. I can't figure out what triggers the secret door in the corridor in the middle of the map (in front of the flashing light, containing green armor and a backpack). Any hints?

1 hour ago, 50milliarden said:

This is my kind of megawad. Excellent design, no gimmicks, solid game play, tons of fun. Thanks, Chris!

 

I's just that I can't get 100% secrets in E1M5 and it's driving me nuts. Yep, I'm one of those people. I can't figure out what triggers the secret door in the corridor in the middle of the map (in front of the flashing light, containing green armor and a backpack). Any hints?

Thank you for all the kind words. It means a lot to me that you are enjoying it.

As for the secret... well, it's not very obvious and in hindsight probably not the best design. It's a timed run from an adjacent room where you cross a linedef and the door opens and you have to run. You just about hear the door open. It could probably need a slight redesign, but keeping stupid secrets like this in old maps are what really makes this anthology, so you can see that this map is indeed made 20+ years ago :) Or maybe I could just move the trigger a little closer to the secret door.

Congrats on the (soon to be) release Chris, 25 years is an unbelievable amount of time to stick around the scene and produce levels for! You're definitely a mapper that's only gotten better with age & experience, so this thing should be a ton of fun.

I don't know what to say to that, dobu. Thank you very much. The fire don't burn as bright as it once did, but I guess I've found a way to keep it burning. Without this community I'm pretty sure it would have stopped burning long ago.

Each episode is very distinct from each other, I had a lot of fun playing this! Easily one of the best ultimate doom mega wads I played! On E4M7, the door did not open after the cyber demon dies or was there something I missed? GZdoom 4.11.3 

Thank you @blueinferno776! I will check it out and see what the problem is.

Edit: I have no idea what is going on. It has worked in earlier iterations of the megawad, but somehow got broken along the way. I fixed it so that it works in GZDoom now, but still can't get the door to open in DSDA and PrBoom. Frustrating! Grrrr. But thank you for informing me about it, @blueinferno776.

Actually playing it, at E1M2 for now. I'm not disappointed. Expected quality content :D

No bug of issue this far, let's go...

I'm on E4M2 now. Episode 2 I remember a fair amount of, but only one level of episode 3 (E3M4) do I recognize. Were it and E4M2 it in ADO? I didn't realize you were a part of that.

Yeah, there are some 2002 ADO levels in there. Check out the spoiler in the first post or the accompanying txt file for more info on where the levels are from or their original name etc.

On 11/29/2023 at 7:56 PM, plums said:

Ultimately it's only a minor problem (and less important than I originally thought, before I realized that Woof had a bug) so I wouldn't stress about it too much. But if you were to record new demos I would use dsda-doom, turn on the "strict mode" option for demo recording, and then use -complevel 9.

An alternative is to put a COMPLVL lump inside the wad, so that source ports supporting it can set the correct compatibility automatically without the need to use the -complevel parameter.

Added playthroughs E1M4, E1M5, E1M6, E1M8 to the playlist in here. I also played E1M7, but I'm dumb and forgot to press the record button.

I have some concerns about the chaingun placement in E1M4 and E1M5. In E1M4 you can completely skip it by accident because it's in a place you don't have to visit at all. In E1M5 you can explore vast portions of the map without the chaingun if you don't go the correct way, i.e. immediately to the blue key. This can easily happen without prior knowledge of the map when doing the intended pistol start.

Like 50milliarden I couldn't figure out the green armor/backpack secret in E1M5.

I love how E1M9's style is the perfect transition from E1 to E2. The music also fits that map very well. The design sticks out quite a bit compared to the other maps, though, it's very noticeable that it's much more recent then the other maps. The soulsphere secret was a bit arcane, and I actually didn't see the trigger until after triggering it.

Thank you for voicing your concerns or observations about those maps. I'm guessing you mean E1M8 and not E1M9. I probably won't change anything about that map, but I will have a look at the other things in M4 and M5. Your logic is sound :)

It's me again, this time with E2M1 through E2M4.

A recurring theme is no-weapons-for-you-if-you-go-the-wrong-way:

- E2M2: chaingun is in an optional section and can be completely skipped, altough I think few will miss it

- E2M3: it's easier to stumble upon a chaingun (there are two of them in the map!), but this time you can easily run into a Baron of Hell with just a shotgun instead of a rocket launcher if you take the wrong turn

- E2M4: again it can be a looong time until you get the chaingun if you don't go the correct path

E2M4 is tough. It's quite frantic from the get-go, and partially it got encounters in pretty cramped sections, and it's very easy to take a subpar route. The plasma gun secret is pretty obscure. I didn't manage to get the BFG, that was even more obscure. I did reveal the two switches that eventually grant access to it, but how you do get the the switches was just a bit too random for me (I looked it up in the editor after finishing the map).

Oh, and if it sounds like I'm just complaining - I am enjoying myself, otherwise I wouldn't be playing and recording it ;)